path: root/meeting-logs/20100225.txt

[21:27:14] <tampakrap> ok let's start
[21:27:23] <tampakrap> roll call plz
[21:27:26] <tampakrap> !herd kde
[21:27:28] <willikins> (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, ssuominen, tampakrap, tgurr, wired
[21:27:48] <ABCD> here
[21:28:17] <reavertm> .
[21:28:43] <wired> here
[21:28:56] * alexxy here or there 
[21:29:00] <wired> alexxy: indeed :P
[21:30:19] <scarabeus> .
[21:30:25] <tampakrap> Sput:  we need you for this one, present?
[21:31:03] <scarabeus> lets start with kdepim
[21:31:14] <scarabeus> jorge is going to be around in ~10 minutes
[21:31:22] <alexxy> hmm
[21:31:26] <scarabeus> so the relevant tasks even for him should be that way preserved :]
[21:31:31] <tampakrap> TOPICS: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/kde.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/meeting-2010-02-25;h=dafe5aa85c43ba9737c783576af83c972ea82afa;hb=594ec14216daa0f2f331295d4baff3e0f6d78a5c
[21:32:14] <tampakrap> ok about kdepim and enterprise useflag
[21:32:32] <alexxy> also can we discuss snapshots for 4.5 pre alphas?
[21:32:33] <alexxy> =)
[21:32:50] <reavertm> ohnoes
[21:32:51] <tampakrap> sure, along with this
[21:33:11] *** Quits: j0hu (~quassel@quassel/contributor/j0hu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:33:19] <alexxy> also using lxc as testbead for testing kde builds
[21:33:25] <tampakrap> the kdepim issue is about the trunk kde i don't know if anyone of you is interested in it
[21:33:30] * alexxy prepared some containers 
[21:33:55] <alexxy> tampakrap: what issue?
[21:34:01] <tampakrap> kmail is broken in current trunk, i tried to package the enterprise branch which is supposed to work
[21:34:26] <reavertm> why we should care about trunk?
[21:34:31] <wired> afaik the enterprise branch should be available for releases as well
[21:34:39] <ABCD> reavertm: because that's what's going to be in 4.5
[21:34:44] <scarabeus> enterprise branch should be availible for everything
[21:35:01] <wired> scarabeus: jmbsvicetto and i talked with a kde dev [cant recall his name right now] who told us enterprise branch is what they really care about
[21:35:24] <scarabeus> we should just monthly generate our own kdepim tarball from that branch
[21:35:27] <scarabeus> and be done with it
[21:35:34] <scarabeus> maybe even forgot about non-enterprise :]
[21:35:36] <wired> considering the [crappy] state of kdepin right now, thats a good idea
[21:35:39] <tampakrap> two packages failed to compile from enterprise stuff, plus a flag isn't possible for trunk as ebuilds are different
[21:35:40] <wired> kdepim*
[21:36:28] <reavertm> 1) there is enterprise related cmake switch in cmakelists.txt - maybe it should be used  when bulding enterprise branch
[21:36:47] <alexxy> am i right that kmail is broken because of mail storage migrartion to akonadi?
[21:36:49] <reavertm> 2) still don't see why we should care :P
[21:37:02] <wired> reavertm: enterprise should actually work OK 
[21:37:08] <wired> and kde devs care about it not breaking
[21:37:17] <wired> at least thats what we've been told
[21:37:18] <wired> :p
[21:37:22] <tampakrap> i agree with reavertm, too much work, maybe we should just wait
[21:37:28] <tampakrap> too much work for nothing
[21:37:29] <reavertm> problem is it does not follow kde release schedule
[21:37:44] <scarabeus> it is released with each even release
[21:37:51] <reavertm> especially if apparently they're going to merge it eventually?
[21:38:40] <wired> no its not going to be merged
[21:38:49] <reavertm> now, I've not tried to build it yet - is it possible to use our ebuilds?
[21:38:59] <reavertm> or it differs too much so that it's impossible?
[21:39:04] <tampakrap> okay, i am having hardware issues with my trunk machine and don't know when it will be back, so i can't work on it any more
[21:39:10] <tampakrap> it differs too much
[21:39:21] <tampakrap> it's not impossible, it is way too much work
[21:39:21] <jmbsvicetto> Hello
[21:39:26] <wired> tampakrap: you are talking about trunk, we are talking about releases
[21:39:28] <wired> hey jmbsvicetto 
[21:39:34] <jmbsvicetto> sorry for being late
[21:39:37] <tampakrap> i'm talking about enterprise itself
[21:39:40] <jmbsvicetto> I confused the hour again :\
[21:39:52] * spatz is back
[21:40:16] <tampakrap> and my opinion is the same for the snapshots, way too broken to be provided to users
[21:40:45] <tampakrap> i can announce it and blog it, whatever, that we can't provide them if you agree
[21:40:49] <reavertm> other issue, how are we going to provide it? split like kdepim?
[21:41:15] <tampakrap> yes, it needs different branch of ebuilds
[21:41:44] <tampakrap> anyone willing to work on it?
[21:41:54] <reavertm> and probably blocking kdepim...
[21:42:01] <tampakrap> or just postpone it for next meeting?
[21:42:03] <tampakrap> exactly
[21:42:17] <scarabeus> ok i personaly cant promise i will devote time to it :/
[21:42:30] <scarabeus> so it would need some maintainer, even non dev
[21:42:39] <scarabeus> just in overlay so we see the potential
[21:42:44] <scarabeus> and then we can put it into tree
[21:42:48] <reavertm> agreed
[21:42:50] <tampakrap> i could announce it
[21:43:28] <scarabeus> ok we should anounce global call if we find someone interested, i think we can help with basics but are busy enough to do it ourselves
[21:43:38] <scarabeus> tampakrap: so could you sent it to dev-anounce and desktop mls?
[21:43:45] <tampakrap> although i doubt there will be someone willing to do so much work for nothing
[21:43:47] <jmbsvicetto> I'm not interested in kdepim, so I won't be working on it
[21:44:05] <tampakrap> yes, even blog the whole kdepim problem in trunk
[21:44:34] <tampakrap> and thus i'm against providing the snapshots ( alexxy ) yet
[21:45:02] <scarabeus> yeah no snapshot until .70 as with 4.4 should be done
[21:45:16] *** Joins: Civil (~Civilian@95-27-138-158.broadband.corbina.ru)
[21:45:16] <reavertm> .85 I would say even :P
[21:45:21] <scarabeus> haha
[21:45:25] <alexxy> no =)
[21:45:27] <alexxy> .70
[21:45:28] <scarabeus> .70 is enough for ricers :D
[21:45:28] <reavertm> beta 1 :P
[21:45:30] <wired> 4.5.1? :P
[21:45:33] <alexxy> aka alpha0 
[21:45:34] <alexxy> =)
[21:45:36] <DrEeevil> btw, word of warning
[21:45:45] <tampakrap> when kmail is ready i'd say
[21:45:52] <DrEeevil> dev.ge.o will migrate to new hardware soon, so expect a day or two of confusion
[21:46:02] <scarabeus> thats good to know :]
[21:46:07] <tampakrap> thanks patrick
[21:46:33] <scarabeus> ok i think we should get back on track with topic one :]
[21:46:38] <tampakrap> i think we are ready on this (btw i'm writing summary as soon as we speak)
[21:46:55] <scarabeus> so we dont jump over those carefully written numbered topics in chaotic order :]
[21:47:08] <tampakrap> ok back to topic one: new leader elections
[21:47:26] <tampakrap> candidates: jmbsvicetto, scarabeus, plz vote (devs only)
[21:47:28] <reavertm> bring it on!
[21:47:48] <DrEeevil> I vote yes ;)
[21:47:52] <scarabeus> DrEeevil: you cant
[21:47:53] <scarabeus> pick
[21:47:55] <tampakrap> i vote scarabeus (sorry jorge :) )
[21:48:11] <jmbsvicetto> DrEeevil: :P
[21:48:12] <reavertm> I'd like to hear manifesto from both! ;)
[21:48:17] * reavertm runs
[21:48:22] <tampakrap> lol
[21:48:23] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: no hurt feelings ;)
[21:48:45] <scarabeus> not to break kde and keep it working for everyone of us :] and provide my qa tools for kde
[21:48:49] <alexxy> i vote for scarabeus =)
[21:48:53] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: nothing prevents us from having more than one lead, but let people choose
[21:48:58] <scarabeus> note that this manifesto wont change for me if not voted for :]
[21:49:03] <alexxy> hmm 
[21:49:09] <reavertm> what qa tools?
[21:49:11] <alexxy> or lets have two leads
[21:49:12] <alexxy> =)
[21:49:20] <alexxy> if its possible
[21:49:22] <scarabeus> i have quite few scripts that checks x11 state
[21:49:25] <wired> i like that idea too
[21:49:26] <reavertm> no, just one to rule them all :)
[21:49:32] <scarabeus> and i can adjust it for kde
[21:49:38] <tampakrap> no, one leader is enough
[21:49:39] <scarabeus> which i plan for month or so already :D
[21:49:42] <wired> we are a large herd
[21:50:00] <scarabeus> actualy multiple leads are weird, just pick guys
[21:50:08] <scarabeus> it does not matter to jorge or me who wins :]
[21:50:16] <scarabeus> we just comply to the 1 year election rule :]
[21:50:21] <reavertm> how many members with voting power are here?
[21:50:33] <wired> lets vote and find out
[21:50:34] <wired> ;p
[21:50:39] <tampakrap> 9
[21:50:56] <tampakrap> sorry 10
[21:51:12] <reavertm> what about 5:5 ?
[21:51:22] <scarabeus> reavertm: that would not amuse me
[21:51:36] <reavertm> ok, let's hear it
[21:51:47] <tampakrap> in case 5:5 i'll change my vote :P
[21:51:47] * ABCD votes scarabeus
[21:51:55] * reavertm votes scarabeus
[21:51:56] * alexxy votes scarabeus
[21:52:03] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll break the tie ;)
[21:52:03] * tampakrap votes scarabeus
[21:52:11] * wired votes scarabeus 
[21:52:14] * spatz votes scarabeus
[21:52:15] * jmbsvicetto votes in scarabeus 
[21:52:20] <tampakrap> lol
[21:52:23] <scarabeus> ok ok ok
[21:52:23] <wired> nice
[21:52:25] <scarabeus> i get it
[21:52:38] <wired> like it or not you're lead
[21:52:38] <wired> :p
[21:52:39] * scarabeus votes for jmbsvicetto :]
[21:52:39] <tampakrap> congrats now abuse your powah :P
[21:52:40] <jmbsvicetto> I said before I would prefer to have someone else being lead ;)
[21:52:47] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: No!!!! :P
[21:52:48] * wired remembered
[21:53:04] <jmbsvicetto> Congratulations Tomas
[21:53:13] <wired> scarabeus: \o/ congrats :)
[21:53:22] <scarabeus> Now everyone i guess we should drink something good in favor of our good benevolent now-ex lead. So on Jorge :]
[21:53:38] <scarabeus> and thanks, lets i will try to not doom us all :]
[21:53:59] * wired has a beer open =]
[21:54:05] * scarabeus too
[21:55:02] <tampakrap> ok little girls you played enough for today, now let's move on
[21:55:15] <tampakrap> Review work flow for KDE minor bumps and improve collaboration with arch teams
[21:55:48] <scarabeus> 1) BUG
[21:55:48] <scarabeus> 2) keywordlist
[21:55:48] <scarabeus> 3) portage addition
[21:55:48] <scarabeus> 4) profiles touching
[21:56:00] <scarabeus> this should be workflow from now-on so we dont touch anyones toes
[21:56:13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The Founder Power has been bestowed on you for #gentoo-kde ;)
[21:56:22] * ssuominen votes scarabeus 
[21:56:28] <ABCD> <CIA-58> abcd * gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/index.xml: We have a new lead!
[21:56:36] <ssuominen> :P
[21:56:57] <scarabeus> ssuominen: ha ha ha :D
[21:57:10] <reavertm> all cards have been played already ;)
[21:57:15] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I propose something different
[21:57:31] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i just wrote this one after start with jer, and then i got distracted
[21:57:38] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: how does your approach look?
[21:57:43] <scarabeus> if its better just make it policy
[21:57:44] <scarabeus> :]
[21:58:01] <scarabeus> its once per 6 months, and it wont hurt to have written down somewhere in Documentation/
[21:58:14] <tampakrap> good idea, whatever we decide on this should be forwarded as a global policy
[21:58:23] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 1) Ask arch teams to test new deps in the overlay. 2) If they don't want to use the overlay, try to add a snapshot or a early release masked in the tree and ask them to keyword it
[21:58:35] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: then your policy
[21:59:06] <tampakrap> i don't like this approach
[21:59:18] <jmbsvicetto> well, your 3) would be done before, so it could be 3) unmask in the tree
[21:59:18] <tampakrap> what if they do something stupid while using the overlay?
[21:59:56] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: I might not have been clear, I meant to let them try the ebuilds from there and for us to add their keyword
[22:00:07] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: I'm not giving commit access
[22:00:07] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: sounds sane
[22:00:18] <scarabeus> altho i dont think about that snapshot into main tree
[22:00:20] <tampakrap> i was not clear
[22:00:26] <scarabeus> deps can go if released
[22:00:28] <scarabeus> but not the kde
[22:00:33] <reavertm> I don't like snapshots in tree either
[22:00:33] <scarabeus> it is annoying 280 packages
[22:00:38] <tampakrap> i meant what if they use other testing ebuilds while using the overlay?
[22:00:42] <scarabeus> its 4 hours commit
[22:00:47] <reavertm> (even if those are kde deps just)
[22:00:58] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The snapshot as a last resort if upstream doesn't have a release 2 weeks / 1 month before getting the new version in the tree
[22:01:27] <scarabeus> but only for deps
[22:01:32] <scarabeus> no touching of kde-base/ itself
[22:01:35] <jmbsvicetto> I'm only talking about new deps
[22:01:35] <reavertm> there is problem - we have no arch team members in kde team
[22:01:40] <scarabeus> we have
[22:01:42] <scarabeus> for amd
[22:01:43] <scarabeus> :D
[22:01:48] <reavertm> only ssuominen, but we would need some for other archs
[22:01:58] <scarabeus> me stable for amd64 from time to time
[22:02:00] <alexxy> i can keyword arm and mips
[22:02:01] <alexxy> =)
[22:02:09] <Philantrop> scarabeus: It's 30 minutes if you commit at category level.
[22:02:38] <scarabeus> Philantrop: i know, but i managed to clash 3x already with someone else :]
[22:02:42] <alexxy> if you commit in 10 threads then it takes about 5 minutes
[22:02:45] <scarabeus> even when i announced it :D
[22:02:46] <alexxy> to commit whole kde
[22:02:54] <reavertm> and since keywording kde is quite a bottleneck .. kde dev (which clearly uses kde) could do it faster
[22:02:56] <scarabeus> hmm i could thread bump tool indeed
[22:03:13] <Philantrop> scarabeus: force commit and kick anyone interfering from the herd. That's what I did. :->
[22:03:30] <alexxy> scarabeus: i added kde 4.4.0 in about 5-7 minutes to tree
[22:03:35] * ABCD is x86-linux and amd64-linux
[22:03:38] <alexxy> working with 10 threds
[22:03:48] <alexxy> *threads
[22:04:05] <scarabeus> ok lets write out the rules on the Documentation
[22:04:09] <scarabeus> and i will thread the bumptool
[22:04:11] <scarabeus> its quite simple
[22:04:44] <ssuominen> <- not a part of amd64, just have stable chroot for xfce/kde/xorg/base-system/media
[22:05:05] <scarabeus> i also stable only when i have long night :D
[22:05:19] <scarabeus> but people mostly dont complain if qa guys stable on archs they can test :]
[22:05:53] <scarabeus> i would say this topic should be reviewed on next meeting with respective prepared documentation for approach in the overlay, anyone some additions?
[22:06:33] <tampakrap> no problem in this, i just hope there will be something prepared until next meeting
[22:06:59] <scarabeus> ok kde-4.3.5 then :]
[22:07:01] <alexxy> i think we can use lxc containers instead of chroots
[22:08:03] <scarabeus> so we are waiting on archies only, are there any issues with it?
[22:08:35] <reavertm> what's advantage of lxc over chroot?
[22:08:49] <reavertm> (which I can boot to natively as well)
[22:08:58] <alexxy> it run separate system in separate namespace
[22:09:10] <alexxy> so its more closer to vms
[22:10:28] <alexxy> VM's
[22:10:29] <alexxy> =)
[22:10:38] <tampakrap> ok back to topic
[22:10:46] <tampakrap> <scarabeus> so we are waiting on archies only, are there any issues with it?
[22:11:25] <tampakrap> anyone?
[22:11:35] <ABCD> not that I've seen, as an archie :D
[22:11:55] <tampakrap> ok next one
[22:12:03] *** Joins: aboow (house5@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vhnffmhwlxzbhinj)
[22:12:05] <Sput> tampakrap: won't be really online until in about 1 hour
[22:12:06] <Sput> sitting in the train currently with shaky net
[22:12:24] <scarabeus> just one addition, dont remove 4.3.4, just wipe out 4.3.3 and 4.3.4 in one step when 4.3.5 is ready :]
[22:12:34] <scarabeus> if anyone gets remove ideas :P
[22:12:35] <tampakrap> Sput: ok we can talk then
[22:12:51] <tampakrap> kde 4.4 status
[22:12:51] <wired> s/anyone/alexxy/
[22:12:59] * alexxy has remove idea of old kde's
[22:13:00] <reavertm> :)
[22:13:01] <wired> :D
[22:13:15] <Sput> referring to kdepim: if we found a way to package the current 4.4 kdepim in a way that it works with -9999 (no idea, copying the ebuilds from 4.4 into some overlay and renaming them to -9999) that should be more or less easy
[22:13:21] <Sput> as 4.4 kdepim is supposed to work with trunk kde
[22:14:22] <tampakrap> Sput: we can talk about it later, the other members have already expressed their opinions and you are messing with the topics now :)
[22:14:34] <tampakrap> back again to kde 4.4
[22:14:46] <tampakrap> any known problems? blockers?
[22:14:55] <scarabeus> yeah it is slightly flaky
[22:14:57] <alexxy> archies =)
[22:15:02] <scarabeus> i got few crashes in kwin and plasma
[22:15:24] <Sput> also, congrats scarabeus :)
[22:15:25] <Civil> few crashes in krunner and plasma
[22:15:27] <tampakrap> me too, so i guess 4.4.1 will be the stable candidate
[22:15:30] <scarabeus> also the virtuoso migration is not exactly funky working out of the box for some
[22:15:36] <scarabeus> 4.4.1 or 4.4.2
[22:15:41] <reavertm> 4.4.2 most likely
[22:15:42] <scarabeus> we shall see after 4.4.1 release
[22:15:51] <tampakrap> ok
[22:15:51] <scarabeus> i would rather wait too
[22:15:58] <reavertm> judging from the past...
[22:15:59] <tampakrap> anything else on 4.4?
[22:16:20] <tampakrap> i guess not
[22:16:32] <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: amarok and mysql 5.1 status
[22:16:32] *** Joins: hwoarang (~mystical@gentoo/developer/hwoarang)
[22:16:49] <reavertm> poor Jorge
[22:17:03] <reavertm> oh wait, akonadi is indifferent...
[22:17:26] <Sput> virtuoso migration failed for me
[22:17:31] <alexxy> amarok works with mysql 5.1
[22:17:33] <jmbsvicetto> ok
[22:17:38] <alexxy> if it compiled with -FPIC
[22:17:42] <jmbsvicetto> so, amarok and mysql-5.1
[22:18:01] <jmbsvicetto> Fortunately it's way better than I feared when I added it to the agenda
[22:18:32] <jmbsvicetto> The ebuilds have been updated and no one complained for the past 3 days(?) so it seems users are getting used to it ;)
[22:18:43] <ABCD> AIUI, amarok[-embedded] should work just fine - amarok[embedded] has the same problems with 5.1 that it did with 5.0 - namely, that we need a libmysqld.so again
[22:18:50] <jmbsvicetto> A few people are still following the bug, but we can live with it as is
[22:19:03] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: exactly
[22:19:52] <jmbsvicetto> there's another quirk, preserved-libs will keep the libmysqld.so for those upgrading, which does allow amarok to work (it happened here), until we have an abi / api incompatible change
[22:20:32] <jmbsvicetto> that is for amarok to work with mysql-5.1 - but that might cause serious issues "sooner than later"
[22:20:56] <jmbsvicetto> in any case, I've resumed my work to get a working patch, so let's see if I can do this before we have to elect a new lead ;)
[22:21:31] <scarabeus> :D
[22:21:40] <tampakrap> thank you x-boss
[22:21:47] <scarabeus> how about we stop supporting the embedded part :]
[22:21:51] <scarabeus> and just force full amarok
[22:21:58] <scarabeus> patch--
[22:21:58] <scarabeus> ?
[22:22:00] <reavertm> like akonadi does
[22:22:01] <tampakrap> ^^!!
[22:22:08] <reavertm> let them have it!
[22:22:20] <reavertm> that should teach those bastards :P
[22:22:30] <scarabeus> :D
[22:22:38] <tampakrap> ok anything else? serious?
[22:22:42] <scarabeus> ok lets go for koffice
[22:22:47] <scarabeus> i guess i should answer that one
[22:22:59] <scarabeus> problem with koffice is that expect graphic tools it is totaly unusable
[22:23:00] * reavertm fixed kword recently
[22:23:02] <tampakrap> go on
[22:23:11] <scarabeus> and it needs all deps reviewed and updated based on cmakelists
[22:23:36] <scarabeus> i personaly use only krita and dont care about rest of the bunch so it needs some dedicated guy whom will actualy use the stuff
[22:23:49] <tampakrap> i will take this one but i may need your help
[22:24:01] <scarabeus> query still works :]
[22:24:19] *** Quits: aboow (house5@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vhnffmhwlxzbhinj) (Disconnected by services)
[22:24:49] <tampakrap> anything else?
[22:24:57] <scarabeus> nop, nothing from me to add
[22:25:13] <tampakrap> ok knetworkmanager
[22:25:19] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: no harm in keeping embedded for now
[22:25:25] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: oky
[22:25:33] <scarabeus> ok we need snapshot
[22:25:40] <scarabeus> and monthly refreshed snapshot probably
[22:25:43] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: if I can get a patch for mysql, we can make it simple again
[22:25:45] <tampakrap> knetworkmanager crashes plasma here, i didn't prepare a snapshot i just tested with live ebuild
[22:25:46] <scarabeus> who is willing to take that one out :]
[22:25:59] <scarabeus> tampakrap: well plasmoid can be disabled
[22:26:07] <scarabeus> tampakrap: most people are interested in kcm module
[22:26:22] <scarabeus> we need monthly refreshed snapshot from svn
[22:26:23] <tampakrap> i didn't use the plasmoid
[22:26:31] <tampakrap> only the system tray item
[22:26:35] <scarabeus> the same thing
[22:26:39] <tampakrap> sure
[22:26:40] <scarabeus> kcm is in systemsettings
[22:26:45] <alexxy> tampakrap: is it working?
[22:26:53] <tampakrap> kcm wasn't working though :)
[22:26:58] <scarabeus> ok
[22:27:03] <scarabeus> so anyone uses NM these days
[22:27:07] <scarabeus> or are we all on wicd?
[22:27:16] <tampakrap> i guess i didn't have time to test it since it was crashing
[22:27:43] <tampakrap> i can prepare a snapshot but it will need a lot of testing and i'd prefer if someone with non-crashing results would do it
[22:27:58] <alexxy> i'm on openrc init scripts and wpa_gui
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[22:28:19] <scarabeus> tampakrap: ok just add it masked to main tree
[22:28:25] <scarabeus> and lets ask users for testing and feedback :]
[22:28:29] <tampakrap> anyone else? no?
[22:28:50] <scarabeus> good question, there is quite few more team members :P
[22:28:55] <scarabeus> who is willing to do this one? :]
[22:29:36] <tampakrap> ABCD / reavertm?
[22:29:51] <scarabeus> there is also DrEeevil whom enjoy the user feedback anyway :D
[22:30:04] <ABCD> I don't use NM
[22:30:19] <scarabeus> tampakrap: i got it
[22:30:22] <scarabeus> tampakrap: coordinate with dagger
[22:30:28] <scarabeus> tampakrap: afterall he is maintainer of NM
[22:30:34] <tampakrap> ah yes
[22:30:39] <tampakrap> ok next topic
[22:30:45] * reavertm does have static network
[22:31:14] <tampakrap> the documentation is fine, i updated it about a month ago, if you all want can take a look and propose fixes
[22:31:19] <tampakrap> two issues though:
[22:31:32] <tampakrap> 1) jmbsvicetto promised to clean up the member list
[22:31:48] <scarabeus> which will be probably my task now :/
[22:32:01] <tampakrap> 2) i have an open bug about xdm configuration which i don't like, i'd like your feedback
[22:32:09] <scarabeus> i will sent mail to everyone who does not have 5 commits month into kde cat
[22:32:13] <ABCD> scarabeus: I sorted it asciibetically for you (except your name is at the top) :D
[22:32:34] <scarabeus> ABCD: lovely, you earn the big plus point :P
[22:32:50] <tampakrap> http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=220755&action=view
[22:33:08] <tampakrap> scarabeus: also plz remove qt members they are still there
[22:33:34] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: yeah
[22:33:44] <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: I'll talk to scarabeus about that
[22:33:46] <tampakrap> a small note: i didn't add the usefull links in the guide as jmbsvicetto pointed as they are not that useful :P
[22:34:00] <scarabeus> tampakrap: recommend dejavu and droid fonts for christ sake
[22:34:26] <scarabeus> tampakrap: other than that you should point to x11 guide which should describe xdm config iirc
[22:34:39] <tampakrap> cool
[22:34:43] <tampakrap> i like that
[22:35:26] <tampakrap> last point: i'm going to blog about kde3 removal and the kde-sunset existence, so that ppl will hopefully stop filling stupid kde3 bugs anymore
[22:35:38] <scarabeus> its only gnu_andrew
[22:35:45] <scarabeus> and he will fill them anyway just to annoy us
[22:36:05] <reavertm> heh
[22:36:07] <tampakrap> i don't have to say anything else about the docs, just i am waiting for you to take a look plz
[22:36:24] <reavertm> remove kdeprefix from docs
[22:36:31] <reavertm> kde guide is way too red
[22:36:45] <tampakrap> funny, i agree on that
[22:36:51] <reavertm> friendly 'notes' everywhere
[22:37:10] <reavertm> it's impossible to follow
[22:37:11] <scarabeus> :D
[22:37:22] <scarabeus> yeah just wipe out kdeprefix from docs is good idea
[22:37:34] <jmbsvicetto> about kde3 and kde-sunset, my opinion is that we did one thing wrong
[22:37:49] <reavertm> also maybe sets...
[22:37:56] <jmbsvicetto> my initial goal was never to make kde-sunset a "dumping ground" to be mastered by users alone
[22:38:01] <reavertm> info about sets - remove as well?
[22:38:14] <tampakrap> reavertm: i think we can have a note about sets, but keep metas as the default option
[22:38:27] <scarabeus> nah sets are weird
[22:38:31] <scarabeus> they are bbd now
[22:38:32] <ssuominen> jmbsvicetto: i'm sure everyone knows that, but you can't force devs to work on it :)
[22:38:39] <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: i'm still following the kde-sunset commits
[22:38:43] <jmbsvicetto> I'd rather have an overlay with commits just by devs and trusted committers (akin to sunrise) and another overlay with free access by users
[22:38:55] <wired> jmbsvicetto: well your idea assumes devs are interested
[22:38:59] <jmbsvicetto> but now it's too late, so we'll have to live with it as is
[22:38:59] <wired> jmbsvicetto: we have none of those
[22:39:00] <wired> :p
[22:39:15] * jmbsvicetto cries for sets
[22:39:34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: not in this implementation, sorry
[22:39:34] <jmbsvicetto> I know (devs and KDE3)
[22:39:55] <tampakrap> ok, i guess we are done
[22:39:56] <scarabeus> pretty much all gentoo devs have commit access to that overlay..
[22:40:48] <tampakrap> the following two topics are long time ideas i had
[22:40:54] <tampakrap> drop prefixes from kde ebuilds (like kdeartwork etc)
[22:40:59] <Sput> I use NM with the plasmoid and both work great
[22:41:01] <Sput> trunk though.
[22:41:22] <Sput> if anyone dares to remove the plasmoid from -9999 I will keel him
[22:41:23] <Sput> :)
[22:41:23] <ABCD> tampakrap: things like kdebase-data... you think it should just be "emerge data"?!
[22:41:45] <tampakrap> well no
[22:41:48] <reavertm> drop prefixes? no
[22:41:51] <tampakrap> but for kdebase-startkde yes
[22:41:56] <reavertm> add prefixes? more likely :P
[22:41:58] <tampakrap> or for the artwork ones
[22:42:01] <ssuominen> please no another dev-haskell/
[22:42:09] <ssuominen> try emerge opengl or emerge x11
[22:42:20] <ABCD> startkde makes sense
[22:42:20] <ssuominen> or zlib for that matter
[22:42:23] <reavertm> or chromium :)
[22:42:29] <reavertm> same with emacs
[22:42:35] <scarabeus> yeah i think it is not worth the gain
[22:43:11] <reavertm> whatever I try to install, it tells me that I need to choose between sam app-emacs/XXX and <what_i_need>/XXX
[22:43:15] <ssuominen> we dropped -plugin- from xfce-extra/'s for a long time, and I can tell you... it was, nothing but a pain
[22:43:29] <ABCD> tampakrap: oh, and kdeartwork-kscreensaver can't be "kscreensaver", because kde-base/kscreensaver is kdebase-workspace
[22:43:34] <reavertm> scarabeus: you wanted to add prefixes some time ago
[22:43:41] <tampakrap> ok i got your point
[22:44:04] <reavertm> to have module precede package name - like kdegames-sth
[22:44:22] <scarabeus> reavertm: i thought of it bit more, and it would just take too much time :]
[22:44:22] <tampakrap> reavertm: it's the same i guess, too much pain, doesn't worth it
[22:44:29] <reavertm> so that one can easily know what module is this withour reading ebuild
[22:44:41] <scarabeus> grep KMMODULE is simple :D
[22:44:47] <scarabeus> or KMNAME
[22:44:48] <scarabeus> :]
[22:44:53] <reavertm> yest, misleading
[22:44:55] <tampakrap> well, i don't want to emerge kdepim-kmail
[22:45:04] <reavertm> module = kdepim, not subdir in kdepim
[22:45:20] <reavertm> KMMODULE is a bit unfortunate name...
[22:45:39] <tampakrap> never mind
[22:45:43] <scarabeus> indeed, sadly i dont want to redesing the eclass again :D
[22:45:52] <scarabeus> reavertm: i bet you dont want either
[22:45:52] <reavertm> we have one convention already
[22:46:01] <tampakrap> we all agreed i guess not to touch anything
[22:46:06] <tampakrap> next?
[22:46:21] <reavertm> for those that are in multiple module, we have plasma-apps, plasma-workspace, plasma-runtime
[22:46:25] <reavertm> same with solid-
[22:46:35] <reavertm> let's just keep it when needed
[22:46:40] <tampakrap>  change kde-meta (and @kde-*) to include all modules (plus the developer specific ones)
[22:46:44] <tampakrap> reavertm: sure
[22:46:52] <scarabeus> i dont get what are you proposing with this topic :P
[22:47:08] <scarabeus> it should include even kdesdk?
[22:47:11] <scarabeus> thats baad idea
[22:47:24] <scarabeus> 99% of users dont want it
[22:47:31] <scarabeus> they just emerge kde-meta cause they are lazy
[22:47:45] <tampakrap> that's what i'm proposing yes
[22:47:54] <ABCD> -1
[22:48:07] <tampakrap> and how is kdewebdev more useful?
[22:48:23] <reavertm> on the other hand, we don't get bugreports for them because nobody is using this
[22:48:25] <tampakrap> how about a developer something flag?
[22:48:33] <tampakrap> exactly!
[22:48:43] <reavertm> (less bugs -> more fun)
[22:48:53] <krytzz> hm tampakrap useflag would be bad, not supported on sets right?
[22:49:00] <reavertm> sorry -1 from me
[22:49:00] <scarabeus> tampakrap: developer useflag could work on meta
[22:49:03] <scarabeus> but what for sets
[22:49:06] <scarabeus> its baad idea
[22:49:15] <scarabeus> if user wants it he can merge kdesdk-meta
[22:49:19] <scarabeus> or kdewebdev-meta
[22:49:29] <tampakrap> kdewebdev is already in kde-meta
[22:49:41] <krytzz> introduce a new set? kde-lazy? :p
[22:49:47] <wired> kde-meta shouldn't be used by users
[22:49:53] <reavertm> why?
[22:49:59] <tampakrap> at least i think sets should include them all
[22:50:01] <wired> +1 for tampakrap's proposal, we should have everything in there.
[22:50:11] <wired> i except kde-meta to install everything
[22:50:32] <reavertm> expect*
[22:50:33] <ABCD> wired: I hope you "expect", not "except" :D
[22:50:39] <wired> expect gr
[22:50:43] <tampakrap> for me kde-meta is http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/
[22:50:54] <wired> a "recommended" USE flag could be introduced to skip stuff not needed by users
[22:50:55] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: he uses qt with the "exceptions" use flag ;)
[22:51:10] <reavertm> kdeexamples O_o?
[22:51:23] <jmbsvicetto> if you add the kdebindings stuff to kde-meta, I'm sure we'll get a few interesting bug reports ;)
[22:51:44] <jmbsvicetto> (wom 96
[22:52:01] <tampakrap> ok then, i'll rephrase: how about a developer something use flag in metas and include everything in sets?
[22:52:10] <scarabeus> we can have kdefull-meta
[22:52:13] <scarabeus> or somethingl ike
[22:52:14] <tampakrap> at least for sets it makes sence, users can create their own
[22:52:17] <scarabeus> kde-burnmycomputer
[22:52:27] <scarabeus> but not kde-meta
[22:52:35] <scarabeus> it is full blown working kde desktop
[22:52:37] <scarabeus> not full kde
[22:52:44] <tampakrap> i still prefer the use flag idea
[22:52:57] <scarabeus> lets discuss this on alias
[22:53:06] <reavertm> well, we can have kde-meta installa all, but advice to use kdebase-meta instead
[22:53:08] <tampakrap> in gentoo-desktop
[22:53:14] <scarabeus> or that
[22:53:23] <scarabeus> but there will be duncan
[22:53:24] <tampakrap> ok let's discuss it in the mailing list, i'll start the thread
[22:53:28] <scarabeus> and who is going to read that :D
[22:53:32] <tampakrap> i won't
[22:53:36] <tampakrap> i have work to do
[22:53:43] <wired> you know
[22:53:52] <wired> gmail used to automatically clasify duncan as spam
[22:54:12] <tampakrap> cool next topic
[22:54:14] <tampakrap>   13 - stabilization of misc kde apps
[22:54:17] <wired> :P
[22:54:25] <scarabeus> qa scripts can help with that
[22:54:27] <tampakrap> wired promised a script :)
[22:54:32] <tampakrap> for qt also
[22:54:34] <scarabeus> but we have quite too much packages
[22:54:39] <scarabeus> in kde
[22:54:43] <scarabeus> it takes some time to compute
[22:54:43] <scarabeus> L:D
[22:54:48] <wired> oioi i had to do that for kde as well ^_^
[22:54:57] <scarabeus> wired: okey your job :P
[22:55:01] <wired> ok i'll repromise to the new lead as well
[22:55:03] <scarabeus> show us cookies on next meeting :D
[22:55:06] <wired> i have a todo file now!
[22:55:08] <wired> :P
[22:55:11] <tampakrap> next week plz
[22:55:13] <tampakrap> max
[22:55:20] <wired> scarabeus: kick him please :D
[22:55:26] <tampakrap> last topic shut up
[22:55:28] <tampakrap>   14 - patches of kde-packager
[22:55:57] <tampakrap> i was kinda busy with exams last month i was not following the ml
[22:56:08] <tampakrap> reavertm maybe knows anything?
[22:56:19] <scarabeus> ABCD is suposed to apply kde-packager patches
[22:56:22] <tampakrap> or jmbsvicetto i think he brought up the subject
[22:56:28] <scarabeus> as was decided on one of the former meetings
[22:56:42] <reavertm> well, there are some and they need to be applied as they appear....
[22:57:00] <jmbsvicetto> yeah, there have been a few patches sent to the packagers ml that didn't go applied
[22:57:00] <tampakrap> ABCD: will you handle it?
[22:57:12] <reavertm> I lag here a bit (also due to limited time recently)
[22:57:14] <tampakrap> anyone else willing to help on this?
[22:57:15] <jmbsvicetto> I think there are 3 for 4.4 by now
[22:57:26] <ABCD> I hadn't be able to get on the list until very recently, so I haven't seen those patches yet
[22:57:50] <scarabeus> i am qute busy in x11 tracking so i cant do such pernament task for kde sadly :/
[22:57:53] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: I thought I had asked for everyone to be put in the ml
[22:58:18] <jmbsvicetto> I'll try to follow the ml
[22:58:29] <tampakrap> ok, jmbsvicetto / ABCD will you handle this?
[22:58:34] <jmbsvicetto> in the least I can open a bug with the patch / patch link
[22:58:42] <tampakrap> sure that too
[22:59:15] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus should be able to add new people to the ml, but in any case I can always poke rdeiter and the kde infra team to get it done
[22:59:22] <ABCD> I'll look into it too
[22:59:28] <tampakrap> great
[22:59:39] <tampakrap> alexxy: what did you want to talk about?
[22:59:46] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: thx for the hint, be sure i will ask anything i would not know how to do :]
[22:59:58] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: any time you need
[23:00:26] <tampakrap> alexxy: ping
[23:00:47] <scarabeus> i have 1 thing: we need another kde HT lead, i cant do herd testers lately due to limited time, and it would be sad if we loose that nice recruit count, dont you think?
[23:00:52] <scarabeus> anyone wants to pick that one up?
[23:01:38] <tampakrap> which are the requirements?
[23:02:00] <scarabeus> tampakrap: be on irc, actively follow the new recruits and help them
[23:02:03] <scarabeus> and motivate them
[23:02:09] <reavertm> like devrel said, a few children and 'mature' attitude ;)
[23:02:11] <scarabeus> come on you saw me in action as one of the closest
[23:02:18] <scarabeus> you know what i did :]
[23:02:23] <tampakrap> ok i'm not good at it
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[23:02:51] <tampakrap> i tend to insult ppl like wired three times per day before food
[23:03:14] <scarabeus> good training is actualy teaching :]
[23:03:29] <scarabeus> ok we keep it as-is and i will anounce on alias :]
[23:03:40] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I'm on devrel ;)
[23:03:47] <alexxy> tampakrap: pong 
[23:03:48] <alexxy> =)
[23:03:57] <tampakrap> alexxy: topics you wanted to discuss?
[23:04:00] <scarabeus> ok /me has to disappear
[23:04:02] <scarabeus> so have fun
[23:04:03] <tampakrap> make it quick plz
[23:04:06] <scarabeus> and dont break a shit
[23:04:07] <scarabeus> :D
[23:04:11] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I guess I'm "old enough" at least ;)
[23:04:16] <reavertm> hehe
[23:04:18] <alexxy> seems we already discussed them all
[23:04:19] <alexxy> =)
[23:04:24] <tampakrap> cool
[23:04:27] <tampakrap> meeting closed
[23:04:32] <tampakrap> i'll prepare the summary
[23:04:32] <alexxy> yep
[23:04:52] <tampakrap> it was cool to moderate you all, next time don't bring your dolls plz
[23:05:55] * tampakrap joke fail
[23:05:59] <jmbsvicetto> dolls? I didn't knew I had to bring mine!!
[23:06:51] <wired> o_O
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[23:23:37] <tampakrap> reavertm: ping
[23:23:59] <reavertm> hmm?
[23:24:23] <tampakrap> sorry for doing this, yngwin requested to add to topics the desktop profile split but i failed to push :P
[23:24:45] <tampakrap> is there anything we should discuss (in ml i guess) or can we proceed on this?
[23:24:53] <reavertm> no, please do
[23:25:14] <reavertm> we voted on this already, no?
[23:25:19] <tampakrap> yes
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[23:35:05] <yngwin> tampakrap: does this mean it is going to be implemented now, or?
[23:35:13] <tampakrap> yes
[23:35:19] <tampakrap> i will do it
[23:35:22] <yngwin> ok, tnx
[23:35:27] <tampakrap> i 'll write it in summary too
[23:35:34] <tampakrap> so you can have proof :)
[23:35:36] <yngwin> good :)
[23:36:02] <yngwin> otherwise i will just remove the ridiculous mysql requirement from desktop profile myself ;)
[23:36:04] <tampakrap> sorry for not bringing this up, i thought i pushed it