Added the log and summary for the 20090820 KDE meeting.

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+[20:55:28] <scarabeus> 57 secs
+[20:55:40] <wired> =]
+[20:56:45] <scarabeus> okey
+[20:56:50] <scarabeus> i guess we will have to wait
+[20:57:05] <scarabeus> since 3 devs; 2 hts and 2 exherbos are not exactly desired combo
+[20:57:18] <reavertm> I'm here
+[20:57:19] <wired> lol
+[20:58:00] --> bonsaikitten (i=quassel@gentoo/developer/bonsaikitten) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[20:58:02] --> dagger (n=quassel@gentoo/developer/dagger) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[20:58:12] <wired> that helped... a bit :)
+[20:58:23] --> yngwin (n=yngwin@gentoo/developer/yngwin) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[20:58:25] --> Ingmar (i=ingmar@exherbo/developer/ingmar) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[20:58:33] --> ayoy (n=ayoy@cs78245237.pp.htv.fi) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[20:58:43] <yngwin> here
+[20:59:10] <scarabeus> ok
+[20:59:14] <scarabeus> looks better :]
+[20:59:19] <scarabeus> so  for the tampakrap
+[20:59:21] <scarabeus> http://www.pastebin.cz/b594e8e991906a
+[20:59:30] <scarabeus> i count him as excuses due to personal matters
+[20:59:41] --> Gentoochild (n=bla@vpn5.rz.tu-ilmenau.de) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[20:59:43] <scarabeus> please read the above paste
+[20:59:50] <yngwin> pesa has no internet currently
+[21:00:35] <yngwin> and ayoy is being grilled by his recruiter
+[21:01:03] <scarabeus> ok
+[21:01:16] <scarabeus> anyone said that he will be late?
+[21:01:32] <scarabeus> otherwise i just wrote up our roll-call, i count everyone whom joined as here
+[21:01:34] <yngwin> not that i know
+[21:01:42] <yngwin> ok
+[21:02:08] <scarabeus> ok so i would say lets start with topic 1
+[21:02:12] <yngwin> i'm having a headache, so i'd like to keep this short on my end
+[21:02:37] <scarabeus> for that i count as relevant tampakraps opinion, and reavertm's they are the last one working on it
+[21:02:51] <scarabeus> so since tampakrap said it in mail i would ask reavertm if he has something to add
+[21:02:52] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll talk to tampakrap, but 2 things about the KDE3 overlay
+[21:03:07] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 1. Let's call it kde-junk, kde-sunset, or something like that.
+[21:03:27] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: no problem i have all powers about gitosis
+[21:03:36] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 2. We can't drop any ebuilds from the tree before at least the end of the year
+[21:03:37] <scarabeus> just sent me after decided name
+[21:03:51] <scarabeus> with 2 i agree
+[21:03:56] <jmbsvicetto> The reason is that we shouldn't tie an overlay to a specific kde version
+[21:03:57] <scarabeus> i would start it after 4.4
+[21:04:01] <scarabeus> if nothing evil happen
+[21:04:17] <jmbsvicetto> At least not before we get 2 KDE4 minor versions marked stable
+[21:04:22] <bonsaikitten> I is here, mostly :)
+[21:04:38] <jmbsvicetto> So if we got 4.2 and 4.3 marked stable, then we could consider dropping 3.5 from the tree
+[21:04:38] <wired> we'll probably need an announcement and a news item and any other possible means of communication to alert current kde3 users that they have to add the overlay if they want kde3
+[21:04:59] <wired> a few months before we remove it
+[21:05:04] <scarabeus> that is simple news item
+[21:05:13] <scarabeus> ad it can go hand in hand with mask :]
+[21:05:23] <scarabeus> i think 3 month mask for this is good idea :]
+[21:05:26] <dagger> I think we should make such news after first kde4 goes stable
+[21:05:32] <wired> its simple but it can also be devastating if we forget :p
+[21:05:44] <scarabeus> and before i forget "DID ANYONE FIND SOME CONTRIBUTORS?"
+[21:06:10] <reavertm> I suppose we'll find some gentoo devs still with 3.5
+[21:06:13] <yngwin> iirc sping showed some interest before the summer
+[21:06:37] <yngwin> he's resuming recruitment process now
+[21:07:00] <scarabeus> will you talk to him and find out?
+[21:07:07] <scarabeus> *mind
+[21:07:08] <yngwin> i can yes
+[21:07:28] <Ronis_BR> I don't know if my opinion counts, but I really agree to dagger, you should announce that even befor kde4 is marked as stable. It may be very painful for some users to make the change.
+[21:07:49] <scarabeus> he has point ^
+[21:08:16] <reavertm> scarabeus: kde3 packages moved to overlay won't be subject of package.mask, will they?
+[21:08:17] <dagger> some people dont like kde4 and we wont change it. We just need to make sure they've got enough time to get use to overlay
+[21:08:28] <reavertm> (they shouldn't imho)
+[21:08:29] <wired> we just need to make sure that people will have the overlay added before we remove the ebuilds
+[21:08:32] <scarabeus> reavertm: wont
+[21:08:39] <wired> and i agree we reavertm we shouldnt mask it
+[21:08:40] <ABCD> I would suggest announcing loudly and often, in many venues so that (hopefully) very few users are taken by suprise
+[21:08:41] <reavertm> (just have keywords dropped probably)
+[21:08:44] <yngwin> and it needs to be stable before it is marked stable
+[21:08:46] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: news item, planet blog entries, forums thread, front page announcement, ... ;)
+[21:09:04] <dagger> jmbsvicetto: sounds good
+[21:09:40] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: can you do it, please please our PR farry
+[21:10:22] <yngwin> i'd wait with too widespread announcements until there is a stable candidate
+[21:10:45] <reavertm> indeed
+[21:11:00] <scarabeus> well i was not saying NOW i mean when the time will come
+[21:11:04] <reavertm> (which movesus towards second topic)
+[21:11:04] <dagger> that moves us to point no 2
+[21:11:25] <scarabeus> wait a bit, i have one problem with kde3
+[21:11:44] <scarabeus> i have seen that debian ship more patches marked as security for kde3 than we even have as bugs
+[21:11:55] --> ahf (i=ahf@irssi/staff/ahf) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[21:12:14] <yngwin> we need people now to start maintaining kde3
+[21:12:49] <scarabeus> or mask it right after we stable first kde4, dont say remove just mask for sec-issues
+[21:13:17] <dagger> kde3 is dead end. I think we need to decide how long are we going to maintain it
+[21:13:26] <yngwin> users wont be happy, but i have to agree
+[21:14:04] <reavertm> I'd suggest faster gentoo stable releases so that we can keep up with stable version being the one actually yet supported by upstream
+[21:14:08] <scarabeus> i think we can write some news item onto the homepage/spread as news
+[21:14:20] <scarabeus> and if noone will volunteer to work on it in 7 days...
+[21:14:22] <reavertm> for example 4.2 branch is no longer mainataned...
+[21:14:26] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
+[21:14:30] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: About the news
+[21:14:48] <yngwin> i agree, we need to recruit kde3 maintainers immediately
+[21:14:49] --> tampakrap (n=tuxicity@gentoo/developer/tampakrap) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[21:15:04] <scarabeus> tampakrap: you, here, how, why
+[21:15:11] <dagger> go home!
+[21:15:14] <tampakrap> just for logs bye
+[21:15:14] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: What do you mean about the package.mask? Do you mean masking KDE3 ebuilds now or after they're moved to the overlay?
+[21:15:16] <dagger> ^^
+[21:15:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: he was worried if we would keep the mask in tree after we move it to the overlay, which is NO
+[21:16:13] <reavertm> what scarab said
+[21:16:19] <yngwin> if we mask it, we might as well move it
+[21:16:40] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / reavertm: I see and I agree with you - no
+[21:16:55] <scarabeus> no, users sometimes hate overlays, unmasking is simple
+[21:17:00] <scarabeus> or we actualy can let them decide
+[21:17:10] <jmbsvicetto> But we shouldn't mask it until some time after we get KDE-4 marked stable
+[21:17:14] <scarabeus> i would start with the anouncing call for maintainers on homepage and on all pcs
+[21:17:27] <scarabeus> then we will know if someone cares
+[21:17:32] <scarabeus> we can recruit the peeps
+[21:17:35] <scarabeus> we have the powah
+[21:17:37] <scarabeus> :]
+[21:17:37] <jmbsvicetto> I'm sorry, but half my brain is being pulled to #gentoo-userrel
+[21:17:55] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes that we mentioned too, after at least 1 kde4 stabled
+[21:18:48] <yngwin> but if there are security issues that nobody is fixing, we may need to mask earlier
+[21:19:04] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: anouncement on homepage and as newsitem if noone reply in timely manner (week) then after
+[21:19:04] <scarabeus> kde4 is stabilised we will right away mask it as security threat. then it will live until
+[21:19:04] <scarabeus> kde4.4 but masked/or in overlay (to be decided).
+[21:19:16] <scarabeus> this is my braindead summary
+[21:19:51] <reavertm> agreed
+[21:19:55] <dagger> I would say make kde4.a stable, than make kde4.b stable and mask kde3
+[21:20:23] <dagger> unless critical bugs will force us to make it earlier
+[21:20:30] <scarabeus> dagger: there must be security ones
+[21:20:32] <dagger> mask*
+[21:20:49] <scarabeus> just browse debian patches
+[21:20:51] <Gentoochild> another thing to consider when ditching KDE3 is whether all kde3 apps are available for kde4 (like k3b)
+[21:21:06] <dagger> k3b for kde4 works perfectly
+[21:21:10] <scarabeus> Gentoochild: security has privilege
+[21:21:13] <Gentoochild> (was jsut an exampolke)
+[21:21:14] <reavertm> dagger: not really
+[21:21:14] <yngwin> mythtv seems to be a problem
+[21:21:30] <reavertm> I wonder whether leaving kdelibs:3.5 + some apps would be a problem
+[21:21:32] <dagger> reavertm: I'm using it 2-3 times a week for cd dvd5/9 - all fine
+[21:21:43] <wired> reavertm thats what i was thinking as well
+[21:22:00] <wired> maybe we can leave kdelibs3 and a few apps around for a little longer (like +6 months)
+[21:22:10] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I wouldn't mask it, but after we get one KDE4 version marked stable, we should start warning users *publicly* to the status of KDE3 security
+[21:22:13] <reavertm> dagger: try writing udf image wth verify - it will lock on 50% on disk eject, but that's off topic
+[21:22:29] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: what are those security issue? khtml?
+[21:22:37] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: If that upsets upstream, I don't care. Maybe it might lead someone to start fixing issues
+[21:22:41] <scarabeus> reavertm: khtml as starters
+[21:22:42] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: no it's very simple: if there are security issues they need to be fixed or the affected packages masked
+[21:22:47] <scarabeus> there was some more in kdelibs and parts
+[21:22:56] <scarabeus> simple tracking debian can work
+[21:22:57] <reavertm> maybe it's easier just to dump kde desktop (along with affected apps) and leave kdelibs + some apps that are known to work
+[21:22:59] <scarabeus> but we need that maintainer
+[21:23:23] <Ronis_BR> I use Kile very often, and the kde4 version of if is far far away to be usable...
+[21:23:35] --> ABCD_ (n=ABCD@gentoo/contributor/abcd) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[21:23:53] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: As a Gentoo policy, you're right. But in that case we should probably have masked KDE-3 a few months ago
+[21:24:03] <yngwin> yes
+[21:24:11] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes but now we will have stable replacement
+[21:24:14] <yngwin> so let's try to make things right asap
+[21:24:29] <-- ABCD (n=ABCD@gentoo/contributor/abcd) has quit (Nick collision from services.)
+[21:24:32] <scarabeus> i would say wait with this decision we can wait for the anouncement and proceed if noone appears
+[21:24:33] <ABCD_> could someone PM me the logs from "<scarabeus> this is my braindead summary" through my re-joining?
+[21:24:48] <-> ABCD_ is now known as ABCD
+[21:24:50] <reavertm> I suppose masking the only stable kde release is not an option so please make sure we have one left :P
+[21:25:08] <wired> sure hold on
+[21:25:45] <yngwin> reavertm: if no maintainers step up, that is currently our only option
+[21:26:38] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: ok
+[21:26:48] <reavertm> then we should do as scarabeus said
+[21:27:07] <dagger> can we make a poll on forums, to see how many users still use kde3 and how many moved to kde4?
+[21:27:33] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: but we should all be aware that even when kde-4 gets marked stable, it's very unlikely that any arch besides x86, amd64, ppc and ppc64 will get it marked stable soon
+[21:27:34] <yngwin> yes we can
+[21:27:35] <scarabeus> dagger: well usage is not our issue, we need maintainers
+[21:27:37] <dagger> of course it will represent only small percentage of users, but should give us some guidelines
+[21:27:51] <ayoy> hey there
+[21:27:54] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i bet on hppa
+[21:28:01] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: sure, i dont think it will be marked stable soon on any arch
+[21:28:09] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: so masking kde-3 will upset quite a few users from these arches, but it will also upset people in the other arches
+[21:28:35] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Don't forget ia64 or sparc
+[21:28:42] <yngwin> so the key is to get some ppl to step up and maintain&fix
+[21:28:55] <scarabeus> yes
+[21:29:01] <scarabeus> so exactly what i said
+[21:29:05] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sparc is still tied to qt-webkit dying with alignment issues
+[21:29:20] <scarabeus> so no cookies for sparc
+[21:29:32] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i agree it is bad solution, but it is worse to leave it rot around
+[21:29:40] <scarabeus> at least 1 maintainer
+[21:29:48] <scarabeus> it is not so hard, the ebuilds are mostly cleaned and fixed
+[21:29:56] <scarabeus> they just need the patches and testing
+[21:29:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: And unfortunately, it seems each day KDE upstream is more concerned with Windows,OS/X than with Linux alternative arches
+[21:30:15] <scarabeus> i expected that one
+[21:30:34] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm not arguing against your proposal. I'm just making a few "warning" ;)
+[21:30:46] <scarabeus> so you can show the logs when they blame you :P
+[21:30:48] <scarabeus> :DDDDD
+[21:30:58] <yngwin> they can still unmask or use overlay if they want kde3
+[21:31:02] <scarabeus> i would say lets go for next subject
+[21:31:22] <reavertm> agreed
+[21:32:06] <scarabeus> i summarised it really nicely and jorge as boss can tweak it more to reflect us so we all write our proposals for it
+[21:32:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: one Q, did you see carlo lately?
+[21:32:31] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: he did kde3 commits when he was around, so that is why i ask :]
+[21:33:18] <scarabeus> the awkard silence...
+[21:33:36] <scarabeus> okey so for the 4.2 stabling i would say vote?
+[21:34:04] <yngwin> i vote hell no
+[21:34:05] <wired> i say we go for 4.3
+[21:34:10] <dagger> hell no
+[21:34:13] <wired> so no =]
+[21:34:21] <dagger> 4.3 is the way to go
+[21:34:25] <reavertm> I vote.. wait for 4.3.1
+[21:34:34] -*- yngwin is with reavertm
+[21:34:45] <reavertm> there's one 'problem'
+[21:34:51] <dagger> yeah, 4.3.1 sounds like the best candidate
+[21:34:53] <scarabeus> you know my opinion but for the record 4.3
+[21:35:00] <reavertm> kde 4.3 will need phonon-4.4pre
+[21:35:08] <scarabeus> the snapshot is stable
+[21:35:11] <scarabeus> where is the issue
+[21:35:20] <yngwin> what snapshot
+[21:35:21] <reavertm> which is good as it works very well, just doen't look official (and it's not, it's our snapshot)
+[21:35:26] <scarabeus> phonon
+[21:35:39] <scarabeus> reavertm: i would say it is ook
+[21:35:46] <scarabeus> it works peachy for everyone around here
+[21:35:49] <reavertm> second thing - akonadi-server sqlite USE flag could be masked in profile
+[21:35:59] <scarabeus> reavertm: why? it is so borked?
+[21:36:04] <scarabeus> i didnt get time to test it yet
+[21:36:13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
+[21:36:13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: carlo? no
+[21:36:13] <yngwin> no prblems with phonon
+[21:36:42] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll have to double check, but I think he's got under undertakers view
+[21:36:42] <reavertm> no idea, works for me, but upstream says sqlite threads support is broken sometimes and may cause data loss when using sqlite backend
+[21:36:47] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: meaning is subject to retirement for inactivity
+[21:36:54] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: understood
+[21:37:00] <reavertm> and I think would just need better testinb whether it's really the case
+[21:37:04] <jmbsvicetto> About KDE4, 4.2.4
+[21:37:08] <dagger> data loss = mask it
+[21:37:15] <jmbsvicetto> If we wait for 4.3, time will fly by us
+[21:37:35] <yngwin> 4.2.4 is not stable, boss
+[21:37:35] <reavertm> (mysql is enabled by default for now and sqlite is marked as experimental in pkg_postinst anyway)
+[21:37:40] <jmbsvicetto> 4.3.0 has some nasty bugs that upstream has admitted already and 4.3.1 shouldn't be out before 1st or 2nd week of September
+[21:37:42] <yngwin> neither is 4.3.0
+[21:37:48] <dagger> jmbsvicetto: yes and no. 4.2 is no longer maintained, and 4.3.1 will give us some time to fix some bugs in 4.3
+[21:37:58] <jmbsvicetto> Add at least 1 month to that for asking for it to be marked stable and we'll be getting very close to the year's end
+[21:38:38] <scarabeus> yep, but i think we need 1 month to fix all the issues we have in the tracker anyway
+[21:38:39] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I think 4.2.4 is not a perfect release, but it's getting very close and will allow us to have a stable version almost 2 months before 4.3
+[21:38:52] <dagger> I believe having 4.3.1 stable by the time 4.3.3 is released sounds good
+[21:38:55] <reavertm> of course before anyone thinks of any kde4 stabilization, blocker bugs needs to be fixed first
+[21:38:59] <yngwin> 4.2.4 is usable, but certainly not stable
+[21:39:13] <jmbsvicetto> 4.2.4 is my vote - but majority rules ;)
+[21:39:23] <scarabeus> yeah we rule and you rock :]
+[21:39:28] <scarabeus> (you know the joke right?)
+[21:39:35] -*- reavertm knows
+[21:39:35] <dagger> 4.3.0 is more stable than 4.2.4 ;)
+[21:39:45] -*- scarabeus confirm
+[21:39:50] <Ronis_BR> If i can vote, I vote on 4.3.1, 4.3.0 crashes sometimes...
+[21:40:03] <Ronis_BR> much more than 4.2.4 in fact
+[21:40:09] <reavertm> actually stability wise i have never had plasma crash yet on 4.3.9999 (and there were some on 4.2 for me)
+[21:40:16] <dagger> i never had a crash on 4.3.0, but saw some bugs about it
+[21:40:36] <yngwin> i'm having plasma issues with both 4.2.4 and 4.3.0
+[21:41:05] <reavertm> my vote is to go with 4.3.1 (or 4.3.0 with some patches added) and if so - remove 4.2.4 from tree
+[21:41:18] <yngwin> well, not on 4.2 anymore as i upgraded both boxes now
+[21:41:24] <dagger> the only plasmoid which crashes plasma for me is microblogging = 100% crash rate
+[21:41:30] <Ronis_BR> reavertm: I don't mean a plasma crash, but dolphin crashes, konqueror crashes sometimes, and plasma crashes :D but it isn't often and it "recover" itself all the times here
+[21:41:56] <reavertm> I doubt anyone still uses 4.2 - adding 4.3 umasked was epic kill for idea of stabilizing 4.2
+[21:42:01] <yngwin> on 4.2.4 i had plasma crashes completely freeze up X
+[21:42:23] <scarabeus> i am for that removal
+[21:42:26] <scarabeus> 4.2
+[21:42:27] <dagger> so, do we need to count the votes than?
+[21:42:36] <scarabeus> dagger: no need, only boss was for 4.2
+[21:42:36] <dagger> or is it decided
+[21:42:40] <Ronis_BR> yngwin: i can be video drivers issue, I have never had a X freeze up with kde 4.2.*
+[21:42:49] <yngwin> nvidia
+[21:42:53] <Ronis_BR> yngwin: ati
+[21:42:59] <reavertm> nvidia, worksformetm
+[21:43:08] <wired> what reavertm said
+[21:43:10] <scarabeus> btwwho is working on stable bugs?
+[21:43:20] <scarabeus> i saw only reaver commenting on them and i closed few
+[21:43:24] <scarabeus> but the list is still large
+[21:43:29] <dagger> intel 4500hd and nvidia here. Nvidia doesn't like new kernel and heci (from staging) driver
+[21:43:34] <scarabeus> i need to ask you to pick 1-2 from there and fix them
+[21:43:39] <reavertm> some of them are gfx driver issues
+[21:43:54] <reavertm> yeah, we need them fixed asap
+[21:44:16] <yngwin> ok, can we move on?
+[21:44:33] <scarabeus> i want to hear that they read what i wrote ^
+[21:44:39] <scarabeus> :D
+[21:44:57] <reavertm> summary of no. 2 please :)
+[21:45:32] <scarabeus> http://www.pastebin.cz/22046
+[21:45:34] <scarabeus> here you are
+[21:45:50] --> Coopy (n=Coop@p4FEDA352.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[21:46:01] <dagger> looks good
+[21:46:28] <scarabeus> yngwin: next topic is yours
+[21:47:07] <yngwin> ok, we're ready to add qt4-tng.eclass to portage, no alternative names have been proposed
+[21:47:39] <yngwin> i plan to do a review this weekend and send it to -dev ml for rfc
+[21:48:06] <scarabeus> qt4-superstar could go?
+[21:48:09] <scarabeus> qt4-meh
+[21:48:11] <scarabeus> :]
+[21:48:12] <wired> lol
+[21:48:15] <dagger> qt4-blah ?
+[21:48:17] <wired> qt4-v2 ?
+[21:48:23] <ayoy> qt5
+[21:48:25] <scarabeus> :D
+[21:48:26] <yngwin> qt4-thisistheoneyouwant
+[21:48:27] <wired> im a bit worried about tng, it sounds good and all
+[21:48:31] <wired> ayoy: LOL
+[21:48:39] <-- |Francis| (n=kvirc@AGrenoble-152-1-28-162.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+[21:48:48] <wired> but what if we want to replace it again in the distant future
+[21:48:59] <Ronis_BR> what is tng?
+[21:49:01] <dagger> qt4-tng sounds a lil bit like star trek, but I think we can live with it ;p
+[21:49:04] <yngwin> well, you can send bikeshedding proposals once the rfc is on ml
+[21:49:04] <scarabeus> well you can live with one damn eclass like us
+[21:49:08] <wired> it doesnt sound like it
+[21:49:10] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: the next generation
+[21:49:11] <wired> it is startrek
+[21:49:12] <wired> :p
+[21:49:16] <Ronis_BR> O_o
+[21:49:30] <Ronis_BR> wierd :)
+[21:49:39] <Gentoochild> to baldly go where no-one has gone before
+[21:49:44] --> |Francis| (n=kvirc@AGrenoble-152-1-28-162.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[21:49:48] -*- wired wonders if after tng we'll have the-empire-strikes-back or something
+[21:49:51] <wired> :P
+[21:49:55] <scarabeus> to baldly compile what noone else was able to do
+[21:50:03] <dagger> wired: lol
+[21:50:08] <yngwin> wired: good name for kde3 overlay maybe?
+[21:50:13] <wired> :D
+[21:50:16] <ayoy> lol
+[21:50:21] <scarabeus> yngwin: i am open for proposals
+[21:50:27] <scarabeus> and i have strong feelings for this one
+[21:50:31] <scarabeus> :}
+[21:50:32] <Ronis_BR> eheheh
+[21:50:38] <ayoy> but isn't qt4-tng or whatever meant to replace the old qt4.eclass?
+[21:50:47] <yngwin> eventually yes
+[21:51:00] <wired> qties4.eclass
+[21:51:01] <wired> :D
+[21:51:07] <dagger> we can't just dump the old one and put the new one in place
+[21:51:11] <yngwin> no
+[21:51:12] <scarabeus> you cant
+[21:51:13] <ayoy> dagger: sure
+[21:51:17] <scarabeus> you would break the ebulds
+[21:51:22] <scarabeus> *current
+[21:51:22] <dagger> yep
+[21:51:24] <wired> yes we need a migration
+[21:51:30] <reavertm> you guys should really "learn" how to make drastic eclass changes in place like we do :D (with no new eclasses involved)
+[21:51:33] <Ronis_BR> qt4-tng is a gentoo version with patches or not?
+[21:51:36] <yngwin> unless you want to check all ebuilds that use qt4.eclass wrt new functionality
+[21:51:39] <scarabeus> reavertm: see this is reason why i slapped you everytime for backcompat
+[21:51:50] <reavertm> scarabeus: with kde-misc? :P
+[21:51:58] <wired> its TNG folks
+[21:52:05] <wired> does picard look like kirk to you?
+[21:52:07] <wired> :D
+[21:52:10] <scarabeus> reavertm: yep :]
+[21:52:20] <scarabeus> kirk had better chicks
+[21:52:22] <scarabeus> they had skirts
+[21:52:23] <dagger> ok, back to the point please
+[21:52:24] <-- Coopy (n=Coop@p4FEDA352.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit ("Leaving")
+[21:52:29] <scarabeus> ok ok
+[21:52:33] <scarabeus> i think tng is done
+[21:52:49] <yngwin> as far as i'm concerned yes
+[21:53:02] <reavertm> or just qt4-0.1.eclass
+[21:53:10] <reavertm> (then 0.2 for next revision :P)
+[21:53:13] <Ronis_BR> "Backcompat is to still commit in the present the errors commited in the past"
+[21:53:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: you should push your versioned eclasses idea
+[21:53:28] <scarabeus> ok anyway
+[21:53:36] <scarabeus> the last thing is bit brainstorming
+[21:53:42] <scarabeus> what shoudl we focus on in future
+[21:53:45] <reavertm> too bad you can't do it in place
+[21:54:32] <ABCD> I remember seeing an agenda item in some email about the unversioned sets
+[21:54:35] <jmbsvicetto> sorry guys - mind at userrel
+[21:55:11] <scarabeus> ABCD: i was waiting on jorge to come back so i left it as totaly last
+[21:55:19] <ABCD> scarabeus: ok
+[21:55:21] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: That idea wasn't mine, I just pulled it out of the dust ark ;)
+[21:55:38] <scarabeus> :]
+[21:55:46] <scarabeus> ok any ideas/proposals what we should focus
+[21:55:51] <scarabeus> we will have new recruits
+[21:55:51] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The versioned eclasses
+[21:55:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i understood
+[21:56:07] <scarabeus> and for them we need something creative to do
+[21:56:12] <scarabeus> we cant just leave them fix bugs
+[21:56:14] <scarabeus> same for us
+[21:56:22] <scarabeus> if i would only fix bugs i would went insane
+[21:57:10] <yngwin> in qt team we are actively looking at adding new qt4-based packages all the time
+[21:57:13] <scarabeus> i had idea about branding, but then i cant draw
+[21:57:22] <ayoy> :)
+[21:57:33] <scarabeus> so someone else would have to mentor the idea
+[21:57:34] <yngwin> documentation could use more work too
+[21:57:49] <ayoy> I had an idea of qt-based portage gui
+[21:57:56] <ayoy> but then I wouldn't use it
+[21:58:00] <scarabeus> :D
+[21:58:06] <dagger> ayoy: noone would I think :p
+[21:58:09] <ayoy> :)
+[21:58:10] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's always the "fix upstream build system" idea ;)
+[21:58:21] <yngwin> there was a kde(3?) one iirc
+[21:58:21] <wired> scarabeus: branding is actually a lovely idea, remember that gentoo kstart icon quantumsummers had?
+[21:58:24] <wired> we need artists
+[21:58:25] <reavertm> I have some task, not sure whether suitable for newcomers
+[21:58:40] <scarabeus> i have tasks not suitable for myself :D
+[21:58:44] <scarabeus> so go on
+[21:58:45] <scarabeus> :]
+[21:58:47] <reavertm> I need eclass for odbc driver management
+[21:59:01] <reavertm> supporting iODBC and unixODBC interfaces
+[21:59:35] <scarabeus> well that is totaly not beginner work
+[21:59:37] <ayoy> ok, next
+[21:59:40] <dagger> I'm sorry guys, but I will have to leave you now. I need to pick up my wife.
+[21:59:48] <reavertm> registering/unregistring drivers, in similar way like in debian, (but separately - one for iODBC and one for unixODBC)
+[21:59:56] <wired> c ya dagger
+[22:00:21] <reavertm> (it should be easy, mostrly it's just invocation of unixodbc tool with creating some files in /etc)
+[22:00:33] <scarabeus> well if you find interested recruit go for it
+[22:00:36] --> Francois (n=francois@193.253.141.72) has joined #gentoo-meetings
+[22:00:50] <scarabeus> reavertm: question. how is your reviewing going by?
+[22:01:08] <reavertm> I'm lazy to send fixed quizzes
+[22:01:25] <scarabeus> gosh
+[22:01:31] <scarabeus> please do so
+[22:01:34] <scarabeus> sooon
+[22:01:35] <scarabeus> :]
+[22:01:35] <reavertm> nevermind
+[22:01:47] <scarabeus> ok last topic is SETS
+[22:01:53] <scarabeus> I hate the current state
+[22:01:56] <scarabeus> i preffer metas more
+[22:02:12] <scarabeus> so we need someone to write proper specs for what we need from sets
+[22:02:12] <-- |Francis| (n=kvirc@AGrenoble-152-1-28-162.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr) has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+[22:02:21] <scarabeus> and talk about it with zac
+[22:02:27] <scarabeus> and even better help him implementing
+[22:02:34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^ ?
+[22:02:38] <reavertm> oh yes, have anyone read bug 272488 ?
+[22:02:40] <scarabeus> am i right?
+[22:02:53] <reavertm> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=272488
+[22:03:04] <scarabeus> i did i liked
+[22:03:08] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: That sounds like an eselect and not eclass (odbc)
+[22:03:09] <scarabeus> you volunteer?
+[22:03:29] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll take this one
+[22:03:47] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I've been meaning to write about it for a *long* time, but I keep postponning it
+[22:03:48] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: use teh bug as base, i like the idea
+[22:03:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Can I ask you to poke me about it until I do? ;)
+[22:04:54] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: hmm, not really, it would be eclass for packages that provide odbc driver
+[22:04:55] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I know the bug. My plan is to get back to the basics about sets
+[22:05:07] <reavertm> it's not about switching between iodbc vs unixodbc
+[22:05:07] <scarabeus> if you promise you wont mark me as your counter person for next lead vote ;]
+[22:05:09] <scarabeus> :D
+[22:05:11] <scarabeus> ok can do
+[22:05:13] <reavertm> (it's determined at compilation time)
+[22:05:18] <Ronis_BR> I wonder when gentoo guys will look at https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=268891
+[22:05:18] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: ok, then I misunderstood. sorry
+[22:05:46] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Are you affraid instead I'll point to you when it gets time for the next election? ;)
+[22:06:04] <scarabeus> :D
+[22:06:20] <scarabeus> okey
+[22:06:28] <scarabeus> anything else for the sets, we will leave them to you
+[22:06:32] <scarabeus> and poke you about it :]
+[22:06:42] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: I think 2.2 style sets are dead end
+[22:07:02] <reavertm> confusing syntax
+[22:07:39] <yngwin> what i want is kde-latest-release sets
+[22:07:58] <scarabeus> that is quite hard to make but i see the point :]
+[22:08:00] <yngwin> so that 4.2.4 would be automatically updated to 4.3.0
+[22:08:19] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: that's basically unversioned sets ;)
+[22:08:21] <scarabeus> also i think we should stop encouraging set usage in docs
+[22:08:24] <yngwin> yes
+[22:08:33] <wired> the unversioned sets work like that :)
+[22:08:39] <scarabeus> they dont
+[22:08:44] <scarabeus> too much package fuzz movement
+[22:08:52] <scarabeus>  /
+[22:09:07] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: they do - the problem is our "non-stopping" upstream ;)
+[22:09:42] <yngwin> ok, anything else for the meeting?
+[22:10:01] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: They have what we call here "bicho de carpinteiro". They can sit still for a minute and thus keep moving packages left and right, adding new ones, killing old ones and finding new and better ways to make distros life harder ;)
+[22:10:11] <wired> do you guys think we should move the plasmoids from kde-testing to the tree?
+[22:10:13] <jmbsvicetto> The can't sit still*
+[22:10:24] <scarabeus> wired: we can
+[22:10:30] <jmbsvicetto> wired: How good do you think they are?
+[22:10:32] <scarabeus> just test them for leaks
+[22:10:36] <scarabeus> and crashes
+[22:10:38] <scarabeus> everytime
+[22:10:40] <scarabeus> plasma is core
+[22:10:44] <scarabeus> if it crashes it is PITA
+[22:10:48] <wired> jmbsvicetto: some of them are pretty good, others i have no idea
+[22:10:59] <scarabeus> wired: then add the one you like
+[22:11:00] <wired> i mostly test that they build and occasionally that they load
+[22:11:09] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I don't see a problem with adding good ones
+[22:11:21] <scarabeus> but you really have to test them
+[22:11:24] <jmbsvicetto> and what scarabeus said ;)
+[22:11:31] <wired> ok so on a per-plasmoid basis
+[22:11:36] <wired> kk
+[22:11:55] <reavertm> well, kde developers doesn't test their code sometimes, so we should
+[22:11:56] <Ronis_BR> you have already discussed about kdeprefix i think, haven't you?
+[22:12:15] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: that was decided long ago, not matter of this meeting
+[22:12:15] <reavertm> Ronis_BR: yes, it's dead (for now)
+[22:12:24] <Ronis_BR> ok
+[22:12:30] <Ronis_BR> too bad, but ok :)
+[22:12:40] <wired> Ronis_BR: we accept patches
+[22:12:40] <wired> :D
+[22:12:54] <ABCD> Ronis_BR: that was decided at the June meeting :)
+[22:13:12] <scarabeus> ok i would like to dismiss the meeting for this moth
+[22:13:14] <scarabeus> any objections?
+[22:13:25] <Ronis_BR> ABCD: sorry, it is the first time that I hear about gentoo meetings :)
+[22:13:39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Before we go, when should we have the next meeting?
+[22:13:41] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: kde.gentoo.org its on the page, logs+summary
+[22:13:53] <reavertm> I suppose we don't need more meeting recently - just people eager to work on issues :P
+[22:13:54] <scarabeus> 17.9.
+[22:13:57] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^
+[22:14:02] <scarabeus> 3rd thursday in the month
+[22:14:09] <scarabeus> 19:00 utc
+[22:14:15] <scarabeus> if noone found it really evil or bad
+[22:14:17] <jmbsvicetto> right
+[22:14:33] <jmbsvicetto> Oh!!!
+[22:14:38] <yngwin> scarabeus: i will be on holiday that week
+[22:14:39] <reavertm> scarabeus: actually we could just meet in two weeks to evaluate work done
+[22:14:40] <jmbsvicetto> One last item I forgot to add to the meeting
+[22:14:50] <jmbsvicetto> Anyone willing to help solar about the 10.0 release?
+[22:15:00] <ABCD> I'll have to check my class schedule for Fall semester again, but I think that will work (it does fall in the middle of the day here, though)
+[22:15:10] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: what kind of help
+[22:15:15] <jmbsvicetto> I want to help with KDE (and if I can compiz), but it would be great if more people could help
+[22:15:18] -*- scarabeus busy with x11stabling/overlays rework
+[22:15:54] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: solar and a few others are working on catalyst specs to build a live-dvd with x86/amd64 to celebrate Gentoo's 10th birthday
+[22:16:08] <reavertm> catalyst....
+[22:16:22] <yngwin> well thats release team work
+[22:16:23] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: can they add ~ packages?
+[22:16:35] <scarabeus> yngwin: there is no such team iirc
+[22:16:36] <scarabeus> :D
+[22:16:37] <reavertm> they could add kde 4.3 :)
+[22:17:11] -*- yngwin sends thunderbolts scarabeus' way
+[22:17:13] <scarabeus> because if kde3 will be there, we can simply grab sabayon, it will be more promotial
+[22:17:23] <reavertm> and polished :P
+[22:18:15] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's an release team
+[22:18:26] <jmbsvicetto> But this is a "special edition"
+[22:18:39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The point is to have KDE4, not 3.5.10
+[22:18:40] <reavertm> solar or agaffney?
+[22:19:33] <-- Francois (n=francois@193.253.141.72) has quit (Client Quit)
+[22:20:27] <wired> ...?
+[22:20:36] <reavertm> release tem
+[22:21:30] <yngwin> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/
+[22:22:24] <scarabeus> ok guys anyway i have to run
+[22:22:31] <scarabeus> here is the summary: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0908summary.txt
+[22:22:33] <scarabeus> do logs yourself
+[22:22:36] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^^
+[22:22:39] <scarabeus> download it NOW
+[22:22:44] <scarabeus> :D
+[22:23:08] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
+[22:23:12] <-- tbeadle (n=quassel@division.aa.arbor.net) has left #gentoo-meetings ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
+[22:23:34] * scarabeus has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Rem tene, verba sequentur || Keep to the subject and the words will follow"
+[22:23:50] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: can't find the file in packer
+[22:23:54] <jmbsvicetto> pecker*
+[22:24:29] <wired> jmbsvicetto: it downloads, its in public_html probably :D
+[22:24:48] <wired> jmbsvicetto: i have logs, do you need them?
+[22:24:51] -*- yngwin out
+[22:25:14] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: please ignore me
+[22:25:32] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I can't connect through http at the moment, but thanks
+[22:25:55] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I got it from Tomas. I was just showing signs of my "split brains" :\
+[22:26:03] <wired> heheheh
+[22:26:09] <wired> no problem
+[22:26:20] <wired> did you log the meeting or you want me to give you my log?
+[22:26:57] <-- ABCD (n=ABCD@gentoo/contributor/abcd) has left #gentoo-meetings ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
+[22:27:50] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ^^
+[22:29:25] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I didn't log
+[22:29:36] <jmbsvicetto> wired: Thanks for reminding me I forgot to add a rule to my irssi about this
+[22:31:37] <-- ayoy (n=ayoy@cs78245237.pp.htv.fi) has left #gentoo-meetings ("kbai")
+[22:32:27] <wired> jmbsvicetto: yw
+[22:32:42] <wired> jmbsvicetto: so where do you want log? pecker?
+[22:35:05] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ~wired/kde/200908_meeting.log
+[22:36:24] <jmbsvicetto> wired: thanks
+[22:40:10] <wired> :)
+[22:41:49] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I have another request for you - starting Saturday, poke me for the logs/summary ;)
+[23:10:08] <Gentoochild> \part
+[23:10:16] <-- Gentoochild (n=bla@vpn5.rz.tu-ilmenau.de) has left #gentoo-meetings ("Konversation terminated!")
+[23:17:09] <scarabeus> btw you can leave now, next on the list is gnome meeting, and i dont think you want to slack around that ;D
+[23:27:43] <reavertm> gnome meeting? nice
diff --git a/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt b/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..280f93b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,41 @@
+Roll-call:
+pesa - excused (no net)
+tampakrap - excused (family issues)
+scarabeus, ABCD, ayoy, patrick, dagger, jmbsvicetto, revartm, wired, yngwin
+
+KDE-3:
+- As discussed before, the KDE team is going to move all KDE3 ebuilds to an overlay. The new
+overlay hasn'te been named yet, but will probably be called kde-junk, kde-sunset or something
+similar as we plan to use it for KDE stuff that is removed from the tree.
+KDE3 is going to be moved to the overlay  either after KDE-4.4 is out if nothing evil happens,
+or after we get 2 KDE4 minor versions marked stable - which likely means around the end of
+the year.
+- We are still looking for KDE maintainers. It seems sping might be interested - yngwin will
+talk to him.
+- Due to the current state of the KDE3 tree source, the lack of support by upstream and the
+increasing security concerns, it's likely that we'll mask KDE3 soon. We're delaying the mask
+until we get a version of KDE4 marked stable - unless more security issues crop up.
+We plan to make an anouncement on Gentoo homepage and to write a news item about the status
+of the KDE3 tree and the security implications.
+We plan to keep KDE3 around in the tree until KDE-4.4 is released (but it will likely remain
+masked) until it's moved to the new overlay.
+- Before we remove KDE3 from the tree, we plan to have a news item, planet blog entries, forums
+thread and front page announcement about it so the kde3ers won't scream for help all over the
+place -  jmbsvicetto.
+
+KDE-4:
+- It was decided by a vote not to ask for 4.2.4 stabilization. It will be dropped from the tree.
+- Instead, the current plan is to get 4.3.1 marked stable. For that, we need to focus on the
+bugs in the tracker[1] and everyone needs to work on it.
+
+QT4-TNG eclass:
+Will be sent for review onto -dev in a week with the -tng name. No better name found out.
+
+Future projects:
+- Documentation polishing
+- Branding the KDE
+- Fix upstream buildsystem to allow install of different versions into a shared prefix
+
+Sets:
+. Adjust it as for bug #272488 or from the ground up for exact specs we need -
+jmbsvicetto (we need to poke him about it often so he won't forget to do it)